Friday, September 07, 2012

3 Vie For Two Astoria City Council Seats In General Election

Two incumbent Astoria City Councilors will run for re-election in the 2012 general election with one facing competition for the seat.

Ward 2 incumbent, Peter Roscoe, is running to keep his seat against Drew Herzig.

Russ Warr, sitting Councilor for Ward 4 is running unoppoed


Tom Freel said...

Nice to see at least one race.

Patrick McGee said...

Let's write-in KC McGee shall we and make Ole Russ earn his seat just for the hoot.

Anonymous said...

If KC McGee wants to run for office, why doesn't she go through the process like everyone else? Why should we elect someone who is not sufficiently interested in the job to use the process?

Patrick McGee said...

Did I say she "WANTED" to run for office?

I don't think I did.

Anonymous said...

Oh, sorry, I thought public office was important. I didn't realize that we should write in (elect) people who did not want to serve. Thanks, Patrick, for clarifying this.

Patrick McGee said...

Ever notice on the ballots, that blank space at the bottom of every office up for election's list of candidates the word "Write-In" printed at the beginning of it?

Why do you think it is there?

You think a write-in could not win against Warr?

Have people won elected office by write-in?

Wouldn't it be interesting to find out?

Anonymous said...

Yes, all you say is true as anyone who can read a ballot knows. But, the question is why should we elect someone who lacks sufficient interest in the job to go through the process to get on the ballot? Or, were you just kidding about your wife being elected?

Patrick McGee said...

In truth, KC's answer to the two groups that asked her to run against Warr was that she was far too busy to run and was not certain she could devote the necessary time to the office if she did win.

So, if she were to win office by write-in and confronted with acceptance or deline and in the moment you think she might go for it?

What message would that send?

Anonymous said...

OK, I get it. This is your idea of American representative government. Sorry I bothered to ask,I should know known better.

Anonymous said...

"two groups that asked her to run..." HAHAHAH!!!!

Ornery Oley said...

I think she's holding out to run against Willis and she sure as hell will get my vote.

Anonymous said...

that makes a lot of sense-encouraging a write in campaign for someone who doesnt want or is unqualified for the makes sense only if you live in some fantasy world like the owner of this site. I also doubt very seriously that "two groups" exist that would ask Patrick McGee's meal ticket to run for anything. Its all the product of someone's mind that beset with issues

Anonymous said...

"Ward 2 incumbent, Peter Roscoe, is running to keep his seat against Drew Herzig." . . . . . . Fine example of somebody's idea of a sentence.

Anonymous said...

Anyone but an incumbent.....

Anonymous said...

It makes as much sense that we do should not reelect public officials as the idea that the CEO of a business should have a finate and short term of office. I say Yeah for both. Maybe some turnover in the private sector will keep it from screwing us as much as they do with gas prices, grocery prices, car prices, etc.

Anonymous said...

Herzig is a wingnut with an agenda...he would use the council chair to "educate" us. He fancies himself as an "activist" in various fields as gay rights, health,the "Occupy Movement" and other fringe wacko issues. He's a definite "No No Vote"....

Patrick McGee said...

In fairness to all ACC candidates, GRP invites all their comments on how they propose to serve us the next four years.

RiverBear said...

Warr & Fulio are an embarrassment to the City of Astoria.

Their irresponsible position on the Muni Court DUII issue is enough that they should be removed from office.

To anyone who attended the House Judiciary Committee meeting on HB 3025 and heard Warr’s and Fulio’s dumb and dumber testimonies, it is clear that these two fuzzy-thinking Councilmen should be put out to pasture. The Judiciary Committee members were dumbfounded by the embarrassing testimonies given by Warr & Roscoe.

Initial comments by Drew Herzig are encouraging. He definitely is not a good ol' boy or girl.

Would love to see a grassroots write-in campaign against Neanderthal Warr. Am not in his district, but know of at least one write-in vote against Warr.

RiverBear said...

Anonymous @ 7:20 PM reveals that he could benefit from some education. His criticism of Herzig as an activist in gay rights, health and the Occupy Movement paint Anonymous @ 7:20 PM as a homophobic retrogressive.

Anonymous said...

Wow, after years of volunteer service to Astoria, Riverbear wants to unseat Councilmen Warr and Fulio just because they said some things he thinks are dumb in relation to our even dumber district attorney efforts to take over municipal courts? Would Bear accept a similar penality if he ever made a dumb comment? Like here? I bet not, but then I bet Riverbear contributes nothing to the community anyway.
If we want bad politicians, let's treat them like Riverbear does. We can then ensure that no good people will run for office. Um, just like elections for district attorney.

RiverBear said...

I got a kick out of how Anonymous @ 10:24 AM refers to Roscoe as Fulio (fool). At least we agree on that.

Anonymous obviously was not in attendance at the House Judiciary Committee hearing, and has no idea how Roscoe and Warr demonstrated a total lack of critical thinking. This dumb and dumber mentality is not new … just more obvious when confronted by intelligent people.

It is not that I think their comments were dumb … they were! It is not just my opinion. You should have seen the faces on the committee members as they listened to and questioned R&W. Listen to the audio file of the hearing ... it is available online.

I certainly don’t consider “years of volunteer service “ as a qualification for public office or for remaining in office. We have bad politicians now … because few citizens ever question or have the time and energy to run for office.

Anonymous’ backing of DUII cases being heard in Astoria Muni Court again show his retrogressive mentality and inability to think critically. Or, perhaps he is simply a good ol’ boy who likes to drink and drive knowing that the Muni Court, which is effectively controlled by Van Dusen and the City Council, have his back.

BTW, whether you agree with Josh Marquis on all issues, he is a nationally renown, tier one district attorney. I wish that Astoria had the same quality City Council, Mayor, City manager and City Attorney.

RiverBear said...

Question for Roscoe, Warr & Herzig:

Astoria has dangerous and deteriorated sidewalks throughout town, especially in residential areas. Nothing is being done to correct this problem.

For Roscoe & Warr: Why has this situation not been corrected, and allowed to get worse?

For Herzig: What is your solution to this problem?

RiverBear said...

Question for Roscoe, Warr & Herzig:

For years, many people who live in Astoria have been upset by the high vehicle speeds in residential Astoria and the lack of enforcement of vehicle noise laws (exhaust and sound systems). Obviously, pedestrian safety is negatively impacted by speeding vehicles. In the past the City Council (including the now City Attorney Henningsgaard), Mayor, City Manager and Police Chief have ignored these complaints.

For Roscoe & Warr: Why has this problem been ignored?

For Herzig: What is your solution to this problem?

Fran said...

I think River Bore is the correct spelling. Run for office, or volunteer to help people and you might learn something, you poor old sot.

RiverBear said...

So much for an open discussion of issues and concerns.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Local said...

Please cite the source of "For years, many people who live in Astoria have been upset by the high vehicle speeds in residential Astoria and the lack of enforcement of vehicle noise laws (exhaust and sound systems). . . .just who and how many is "many"?

RiverBear said...

A few years ago, over 600 Astoria residents signed the following petition:

To - The Astoria City Council:
As residents of Astoria, we are concerned about (1) traffic speeds in excess of the 25 MPH limit in residential areas and (2) excessive and unreasonable vehicular noise caused by exhaust and audio systems. Increasing levels of vehicle noise and unsafe traffic speeds are eroding our quality of life. Excessive vehicle noise is not only a disturbance, but a health hazard. We would like the City Council to address these health, safety and environmental issues. We, the undersigned, ask the Astoria City Council to acknowledge these problems and work toward solving them. Thank you.

The petition was presented to the Mayor and City Council who ignored it.

City Manager Benoit described the petition as a “feel good” petition that “means nothing”.

For the information of those who believe the petition was the result of a “Californian”, the group responsible for the petition consisted of a native-Astorian, four long-term Astorians and two newer residents.

RiverBear said...

Here are comments by the petition signers:

“It is so unsafe on Irving that I had to start walking my dog at a different time or risk getting hit last month when I was having some ambulatory problems. The cars are going 40-55 MPH in a 25 MPH zone. Dogs, deer, and older people don't have a chance at those speeds and we have plenty of each on Irving.”
-- Kathleen Paino, Irving Avenue

“The police have for years cited the "Oregon Basic Rule" as their reason for not ticketing speeders. The law says a driver must drive at a safe speed and the courts don't seem to think exceeding the posted limits is necessarily unsafe. My question is safe to who or what? Safe to the community (those of us outside the car) or safe to the person strapped into a couple of tons of high impact plastic and steel? Now personally I think that means safe to the community, after all laws are written to protect the community, not just the individual. Well that's how it's suppose to work anyway. I fought this battle for to long, logic will not work with this "city hall". I wish you luck.”
-- Resident. Astoria

“I want to STOP hearing genuine STREET RACING on 16th (I think) at 3 am! I'm always afraid to call the police because I only HEAR and can't actually SEE the racing, but the sound I hear is the sound of RACING!”
-- Kensington Avenue Resident

“Cars and trucks regularly roar up and down this main through street at speeds of 35-45 miles an hour. There are blind intersections.”
-- Franklin Avenue Resident

“16th Street is very dangerous ... my friend was almost hit by a car.”
-- 1st Grade Student at Star of Sea School

“Nasty noise and very dangerous speeding going past Gray School. Most always on the weekend usually after 5 PM. Most often on Friday evenings. It looks & sounds like 50+MPH and most are 35+mph accelerating further as they pass in front of the school.”
-- Alameda Avenue Resident.

“I live in the Alderbrook neighborhood***. I just relocated here from Vancouver, WA. The first night I moved in there was an accident on HWY 30 redirecting traffic onto Cedar Street. People were driving 60-80 miles per hour until traffic got jammed. This problem has continued accident or no accident on HWY 30. Buses, trucks, vans and cars zooming down the road in the day and night. I'm shocked to see the Tongue Point Bus going 50+ miles per hour. Also the local Astoria buses are way over the speed limit. I have an eleven year son, two year old nephew and 11 month old niece. Safety is a huge concern to me and my family. I don't even want to send my son out to the bus in the morning without supervision.”
-- Jennifer Cerf, Cedar Street Resident

“I would like to invite Chief Oja to sit on my front porch at xxxx 15th Street for one hour to see how noisy it is! There is one car in particular that goes by at 5:45 every morning that roars through the neighborhood and wakes me up...its like an alarm clock from Hell! I wish they would let people on 15th and 16th Streets take down the license plate numbers of people as they speed by, or are so noisy and turn them in....couldn't we maybe propose a neighborhood watch sort of opportunity to catch these people and turn them in. Obviously, the APD has no clue as to the annoyances we must endure hourly. I applaud your (ALN’s) stick-to-it attitude...”
-- 15th Street Resident

“I hold my breath every time one of our visitors pulls out onto 16th Street .”
-- Administrator, Clatsop Care Center

RiverBear said...

More comments by petition signers:

“We are concerned and upset about the lack of enforcement of vehicle noise and speed laws in Astoria. As vehicles make the turn onto 15th from Jerome many accelerate at full throttle up the hill. Those with defective or improperly installed exhaust systems at times cause our windows to rattle. Often we have to pause conversation until a vehicle has passed by. Many vehicles with manual transmissions shift up through their gears so many times it would be difficult to believe they are staying within the 25 mph speed limit, or even within the 35 mph "allowed" speed.”
-- Jerome Avenue Resident & Neighbor of Councilor Henningsgaard

Cars and trucks regularly roar up and down this main through street (5th & Franklin) at speeds of 35-45 miles an hour. There are blind intersections.”
-- George McCartin, Astoria

“When you (APD) finish assessing the situation (Traffic Analysis) on 15th street please head over to eighth and observe the very same noise and speed.”
-- George McCartin, Astoria

“Having just attended another Astoria City Council meeting, where the serious issue of traffic safety was blown off once again by those who govern us, it has me wondering. Why, after so many years of voiced citizen concern and countless traffic safety committee recommendations, does the City of Astoria continue to ignore the obvious - that, aside from being common sense and essential to public safety, enforcing existing speed limits is good for business and good for property values? Unlike difficult, complex, pie-in-the-sky visioning goals, creating pedestrian-friendly, child-and-pet friendly neighborhoods where you don't take your life in your hands every time you take a walk is something everyone could agree on, and it is very easy to do. Please, Astoria City Council, do the right thing, and enforce existing speed limits on our streets.”
-- Susan Skinner, Astoria

“I work at The Clatsop Community College Performing Arts Center as the stage manager. I often record and present concerts at this great venue. I find it annoying and costly to deal with the loud noise from cars and trucks racing up and down the hill at 16th and Franklin ...., as this noise penetrates the concert hall. How about doing something to help this taxpayer and the rest of the community by having the police enforce the speed and noise laws within the city limits of Astoria?”
-- Stage Manager, Performing Arts Center

“An open letter to the members of the traffic safety committee: I know you are all aware of the concerned citizens group formed regarding speed and noise on our city streets. Now that my office is in the downtown area, these issues are even more apparent to me. While speeding is difficult on both Commercial Street and Marine Drive due to volume and stop lights, this is not the case with Duane and Exchange streets. I believe these streets are generally seen as "bypasses" without the 25 mph speed limit.”
-- Marcia Fenske, Astoria

“I am very much a supporter of your group (ALN). I am working at the time of the meeting, so unfortunately cannot come. However, I know of a place where I think a lot of people could be roused, but I haven't really got time to do it. I am speaking of the Lincoln Street Speedway that goes up and over the hill (south) at Hume Street and Marine Drive (between the visitor's center and the mini-mart), up to West Grand and on. We endure a lot of noise, speeding and boom box cars and I know people who live around here would be interested in your goals. I have two signatures for your petition in my possession, which I will forward. Some Sunday when people are home, why don't you come over and get your petitions signed and gather some new members?”
-- Lincoln Street Resident

“[Regarding 16th street traffic & cars without mufflers going up and down 16th at high speed] ... not real often, but often enough to be annoying.”
-- Resident who lives at 16th & Grand

RiverBear said...

More comments by petition signers …..

“Nasty noise and very dangerous speeding going past Gray School. Most always on the weekend usually after 5 PM. Most often on Friday evenings. It looks & sounds like 50+MPH and most are 35+mph accelerating further as they pass in front of the school.”
-- Alameda Avenue Resident

“People drive (on Lexington) very fast. Sometimes, so fast that the cars bottom out on bumps in the road. We have many children and animals in our neighborhood. More some more speed enforcement would be a benefit to all.”
-- Keli Ramrick, Lexington Avenue

“I am tired of 16th Street being used as a speedway & a jumping ramp. Safety of pedestrians is a concern.”
-- Resident #1, Corner of Irving & 16th Street

“16th Street is a big hazard ... speeds are too fast.”
-- Resident 2, Corner of Irving & 16th Street

“I am concerned with speeds on 16th and jumping the hill.”
-- Resident #3, Corner of Irving & 16th Street

“Speeds on 16th are way too fast ... Also vehicles are jumping.”
-- Resident #4, Corner of Irving & 16th Street

“I have reported vehicles flying down the hill.”
-- Resident #5, Corner of Irving & 16th Street

“Slow speeds down on 16th ... lots of accidents.”
-- Resident #6, Corner of Irving & 16th Street

“I have nearly been hit nine times at 16th & Irving."
-- Resident #7, Corner of Irving & 16th Street

“Please, please help us make this neighborhood safer & quieter.”
-- Resident #8, Corner of Irving & 16th Street

“All the complaints and concerns (regarding speeding, flying & jumping vehicles on 16th Street) are valid. The violations and nuisances are occurring in other areas. Speeding around the corner at Niagara and 15th St. is common. In rainy weather the vehicles skid into the oncoming traffic lane. Late at night loud radios systems send vibrations into the house, with the thumping woofers. Thumping audio systems awaken us a 2 a.m.”
-- Jan Nybakke – 15th Street

Some brief comments written by petition signers:

“High speed is a primary issue.”

“Traffic speed and noise have increased considerably in the past 10 years.”

“The noise and speed affects the livability of our neighborhoods.”

“Loud exhausts (are heard) often - especially motorcycles (Harleys).”

“Speed & muffler noise is impossible.”

“Speed & noise along Irving (is) too excessive.”


“Enforce the speed limit on Irving. Too many cars (travelling) in excess of 35+ (on) Irving.”

“People speed constantly on Irving & disregard the dangerous intersection sign.”

“Cars without mufflers.”

“How about mufflers on cars!”

“25 MPH in residential areas seems to be appropriate … keep our kids safe.”

“A few days of police presence would work wonderfully!”

“Irving should not be a race track.”

“Loud vehicles disturbing family. Speeding is a large concern for children .. playing.”

“Bond has excessive speeds. It is still a residential neighborhood.”

“Slow them down.”

“Excessive speed on 15th/Grand within school proximity.”

“Quiet please.”

“Pets, children are in danger.”

“Many children play on our street; speeding cars are a real hazard!”

“Awful noise levels all the time.”

“Loud mufflers can be heard all the way up 8th Street. It's awful.”

“Serious issue of racing down Niagara (Friday and Saturday nights).”

“Slow down in residential AND downtown!”

“Please address these problems.”

“Would you please do something?”

“Noise is terrible at night.”

“Excessive Noise !!”

Anonymous said...

16th isnt that bad and everybody knows it. People have to have something to complain about, though, and the truth is more accidents, happen on Commercial and Marine Drive than up in the hoods..especially when it comes to pedestrians vs. cars....There's nothing that can be done on 16th except to cite drivers exceeding the limit but they are not going to post a cop there 24/7 because a few people groaning about's always been that way need to make noise to get up the there really isnt a solution except for the people crying about it to suck it up

Drew Herzig said...

If elected I will deal with matter of unsafe streets by closing them down to everyone except the people who live on the street.

RiverBear said...

Since Fran and Anonymous are so interested in ALN’s attempt to get the City to enforce vehicle speed and noise laws, I will share this oldie-but-goodie example of selective APD law enforcement:

Frustrated by the failure of the APD to not cite drivers until vehicle speeds exceed 35 MPH, the group Astorians for Liveable Neighborhoods e-mailed Police Chief Deu Pree the following question on 11/13/06:

“Based on your e-mails and previous APD correspondence, it appears that APD does not issue speeding citations in a 25 MPH zone, such as 16th street, until vehicle speeds exceed 35 MPH. Why is APD allowing speeders 10 MPH tolerance?”

Chief Deu Pree replied:

“The 10 to 15 mph over the prima fascia speed is generally allowed by officers state-wide. It is caused by consideration of the level of proof required by the Basic Rule, what the Courts have shown they will allow and the officer's observations of the driving conditions. We also know that most vehicle speedometers are not precise when new, and that such things as age, new or special tires and mechanical work, or the lack thereof, impact accuracy. Some consideration is occasionally given to those factors.”

This lax enforcement enforces today's culture of speeding by drivers in Astoria, and certainly exacerbates the open season on pedestrians.

RiverBear said...

Another oldie-but-goodie:

In a November 2006 meeting City Councilor Henningsgaard agreed with ALN members that there was a speeding problem in residential areas, but Henningsgaard said “tickets are the wrong way to go” in solving the speeding problem. Councilor Henningsgaard had no solution to solve the problem.

RiverBear said...

This information is especially for Anonymous ….

In March 2007 Astorians For Liveable Neighborhoods (ALN) performed a review of speeding and noise citations issued by the APD during the 14 month period from January 2006 through February 2007:

· No citations were issued for excessive vehicle noise caused by exhaust or audio systems.

· Of the 253 speeding citations, only 41 were issued in residential areas. Of the 41 residential citations, 30 were issued along 7th Street. Therefore, despite public complaints about speeding vehicles, only 11 citations (less than one citation per month) were issued in all other residential areas of Astoria (8th Street, 16th Street, Irving Avenue, Niagara Avenue, etc.).

· In 25 MPH residential areas, no speeding citations were issued for speeds of less than 35 MPH. One citation was issued for 35 MPH, and the 40 other citations were issued for speeds of 37 MPH or more.

· In 25 MPH residential areas, the average vehicle speed recorded on speeding citations was 40.6 MPH.

Anonymous said...

Gee, where'd all the comments from the locals go?????

Anonymous said...

If you would like the actual data for work our law enforcement agencies do, go to and search the Oregon Annual Uniform Crime Reports.
To save you time, this data shows that in 2010 (the latest year available), the Astoria Police handled:
156 crimes against persons
803 crimes against property
1225 behavorial crimes
for a total of 2253. Crime means a violation of state statute punishable by fine and/or imprisonment, not city code violations.
This data does not include traffic tickets, so add another 1500 or so to that.
As I recall, the District Attorney handles about 1000 cases a year total, so adding a large percentage of the 2253 Astoria cases which now go to the municipal court and, maybe the traffic tickets, will certainly have an affect on his staff. He has said in him blog, however, that he will not ask for more money, so it will be interesting to learn what happens to the new cases. As always, we hope Patrick tracks this information as our county commission reporter so we can see how justice is done here.

RiverBear said...

Is Anonymous attempting to excuse the City of Astoria’s failure to effectively enforce speeding and vehicle noise laws?

To get back on point, is this failure an APD choice, or directions from the Mayor, City Council and City Manager?

Rather than hear Anonymous’ defending of the status quo, I would like to hear from candidates Warr, Roscoe and Herzig about their thoughts on safety and quality of life related to motor vehicle speeds and excessive vehicle noise.

Who is Anonymous? The ALN members and the over 600 petition signers are simply Astoria residents who want safer and quieter streets. Anonymous is so emotional in his posted and deleted comments, I wonder if he is a former APD police chief or current city councilor, mayor, city attorney or city manager? I doubt he is the current police chief who is a Californian, and we know how Anonymous feels about Californians.

Anonymous said...

I'm a progressive and yes, I recently moved here from California so sue me! I like Drew Herzig's idea about closing down the streets to all vehicle traffic save for residents who live on or in the immediate areas surrounding their homes and business. Except for emergency services such as police, fire, ambulance as well as utility vehicles. Less traffic means less burned fuel which means a cleaner planet for all citizens and reduce American dependence on foreign oil. It's the Green thing to do and I applaud Mr. Herzig's bold proposal

Tired of All This said...

The DA handles about 1200 felonies and actual misdemeanors a year. The numbers are available on the county's performance measure part of the annual budget. The City actually prosecutes about 100 state criminal law cases a year but turns almost ALL into non-criminal violations.
Otherwise they'd be doing twice the job of the day with one part time judge and 1/6the legal staff.
But, hey, maybe they are supermen who know more than anyone else and are just hiding the light under a barrel. Of course, unlike Circuit Court and the DA, who have to keep actual records, we have NO idea what is really going on in Muni Court.

Anonymous said...

"The City actually prosecutes about 100 state criminal law cases a year but turns almost ALL into non-criminal violations" What is the source for these figures? You know this how?

Anonymous said...

So, we know APD handles about 2300 crimes a year. The other four law enforcement agencies in the county, not counting OSP or the OLCC must handle about 3000 more, for a total of 5300 crimes. Someone believes 100 of these go to the Astoria Municipal Court and Josh says all crimes from the cities other than Astoria go to him. Yet, he only handles 1200 crimes a year.
What happens to the about 4000 crimes that the police report, but Josh does not handle?
And, by the way, it is up to the prosecutor(including the DA) to determine if misdemeanors are handled as violations, not the police and not the judge. Violations require the police officer to act as a lawyer and prosecute the case so attornies other than the judge are not involved. So, how many of the 4000crimes Josh gets does he reduce to violations so no lawyers, including his staff, are involved? It sounds like about 3800 of them. Is this Clatsop County justive?

Anonymous said...

Since River Bear asked who anon could be, it seems appropriate to comment that River Bear appears to be Leon Jackson, a man who moved to Astoria a few years ago and tried to become a member of the community by creating ALN and being its webmaster. In fact, Leon moved to the 16th street area, obviously without doing any research on what that neighborhood was and had been like for many years. He then, unsuccessfully, tried to change it, apparently using the theory of the guy who moved next to an airport and then complained about the airplanes. Could Leon still be on the track of complaining about everything and everyone while building nothing?

Patrick McGee said...

And where did you get all the statistical data above "Anonym"?

RiverBear said...

As previously stated, ALN was formed by a group that included native Astorians, long-term residents of Astoria and new residents. It was formed because City Hall and the APD refused to effectively enforce speeding and vehicle noise laws in Astoria. In fact, the APD was pathetically ignorant regarding procedural enforcement of the Oregon Revised Statute pertaining to vehicle exhaust noise.

The speeding and noise problems were never presented as a “16th Street” only problem, but as a city-wide problem. Those in City government who opposed our efforts still continue to intentionally misrepresent ALN’s message.

Anyone with a clear-thinking mind who read the angry comments by Astoria residents realizes residents throughout Astoria are upset about vehicle speed and noise in residential areas.

ALN never understood the hubris of the Mayor, City Council, City Manager and Police Chiefs in ignoring the complaints of over 600 residents.

Anonymous’ anger on this issue seems over the top.

(Anonymous sounds more and more like Robbie D.)

RiverBear said...

Since Anonymous wants to continue this discussion, here is ALN’s commentary on the 16th Street Traffic Analysis:

On May 5, 2008 Astoria City Manager Paul Benoit presented a memorandum to the City Council reporting the results of a vehicle speed traffic analysis on 16th Street (Analysis). The Analysis was performed by the Astoria Police Department (APD) over a week long period using a traffic analyzer provided by the Milwaukie Police Department.

The Analysis occurred after over two years of complaints by Astorians For Liveable Neighborhoods (ALN) and over six hundred Astoria residents signing a petition complaining about excessively loud vehicles speeding through Astoria’s neighborhoods.

By policy and practice, APD does not issue speeding citations in 25 MPH zones until speeds reach or exceed 35 MPH. City Manager Benoit, Mayor Van Dusen and the City Council have supported this irresponsible practice. Astoria’s hilly streets and blind intersections make such a practice even more foolhardy.

Data in the Analysis supports ALN's complaint that there is a speeding problem in Astoria; and refutes the City of Astoria's longtime denial of this fact.

Benoit spins the facts …

Rather than acknowledge that there is a hardcore group of speeders, the memorandum’s conclusion skims over the heart of the problem, and highlights that there is "high level of compliance with posted speed laws".

The rest of the story …

The traffic analysis data shows that on an average day on 16th Street (which has a 25 MPH speed limit):

• 436 vehicles travel at 30 MPH or faster
• 107 vehicles travel at 35 MPH or faster
• 51 vehicles travel at 40 MPH or faster
• 31 vehicles travel at 45 MPH or faster

This data supports ALN’s longtime position that the APD’s laissez-faire traffic enforcement has resulted in a group of speeders who have no respect for traffic laws.

To put these traffic analysis numbers in perspective, APD issued only one speeding citation on 16th Street during a 14-month period ending in 2007.

In the memorandum, APD recommended the following actions:
• Purchase a traffic analyzer.
• Work with the Engineering Department on traffic calming options.
• Develop a directed patrol plan to take advantage of traffic study information.
• Embark on a community education plan.
• Meet with ALN to share the data and advise about a directed patrol plan.

Outcome …

The City Council ignored the APD recommendations and failed to make a decision. E-mails to City Manager Benoit, Councilor Henningsgaard and newly appointed Police Chief Curzon about the status of the recommended actions were only given lip service.

RiverBear said...

The silence is deafening as Roscoe and Warr cower on the safety and quality of life problems caused by vehicle speeding and excessive vehicle noise in Astoria.

Anonymous said...

It looks like River Bear is doing the same thing he did several years ago: lambasting everyone who does not agree with him to the point of occupying all the air in the room and turning off anyone present.
Please Bear, keep up your vicious complaints on this thread of all those who have volunteered so much time to the city they love, often at great expense to their businesses and personal time. I'm sure they truly appreciate your unfettered bashing of all their efforts, expecially since you are so new to the community.
River Bear, um a bear who swims in the river would be all wet, right?

RiverBear said...

Roscoe & Warr – Quiet as Church Mice …

Anonymous continues to defend the irresponsible and unresponsive actions of City Hall, yet can’t put together a rebuttal to facts and citizen comments. To defend the City’s failure to act because the Councilors and Mayor are volunteers is folly. Additionally, the City Manager and Police Chief are not volunteers.

It is sweet that the Mayor and City Councilors (especially Warr & Roscoe) have an inarticulate mouthpiece like Anonymous to ineffectively defend them.

Two statements attributed to President Truman come to mind regarding inept volunteer mayors and city councilors who don’t take well to criticism:
• “If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."
• “The buck stops here.”

RiverBear said...

Letter To City Government From An Angry Resident

March 26, 2008

City Manager Benoit
Mayor Van Dusen
Chief Deu Pree (footnote 1)


I have lived on the corner of 15th Street and Lexington for the past three years. During that time, the traffic and noise from cars, trucks, motorcycles and people who drive cars without mufflers has been escalating steadily.

When my family comes to visit, they complain about not being able to sleep peacefully because of the noise from traffic on 15th Street. At times it is so loud I can’t even hear my television. During the summer months, the Harley Davidson motorcycles (footnote 2) that are on their way to the Astoria Column constantly rev up their engines as they climb the hill. It becomes so loud and vibrates so much, that my windows rattle!

As soon as people turn the corner from Jerome Avenue on to 15th, they step down on their accelerator and speed up the hill. In the three years I have lived in Astoria, I have only seen one city police car parked on Lexington patrolling the area, and have actually never seen anyone stopped for speeding on 15th.

I work at the college and walk to and from my home to work. I stand on the sidewalk waiting to cross the street at the cross walk while cars whiz by. Rarely will a driver stop to let me pass. There should be a sign on both sides of the street that there is a pedestrian crosswalk ahead.

It becomes very aggravating, especially when there is a storm with rain and wind, that no one will slow down and let me walk across the street. It’s even more discouraging that the city does not patrol 15th Street more often to catch speeders or those who fail to stop for pedestrians in a cross-walk.

I implore those who work in city government and in the police department to take into consideration my right to peace and quiet and that those who drive illegal vehicles without mufflers at all hours of the day and night, and speed in front of my home, are disturbing the peace in my domicile. They should be stopped and fined for breaking the law.


Name Withheld at Request of Correspondent


1. Chief Deu Pree is now retired. Excessive vehicle noise & speeding traffic were problems in Astoria during his term in office. As noted in the above letter, the problems still exist.

2. Mayor Van Deusen, who rides a Harley Davidson motorcycle, has been mute regarding any comments about vehicle noise complaints.

Anonymous said...

"name witheld by request" says it all

RiverBear said...

Former Police Chief Deu Pree on Excessive Vehicle Noise:

Chief Deu Pree’s position on vehicle noise in Astoria was that there was no verifiable problem, and no evidence of vehicles causing excessive or unreasonable noise. During his reign as Chief, Deu Pree’s told ALN that his officers were not trained to make subjective decisions about vehicle noise.

Deu Pree considered it beyond his police officer’s ability to judge, by listening, if a muffler was not in good working order or loud, or if sound was unnecessary or unreasonable. Deu Pree threw common sense out the window with his position that a police officer has to be a mechanic, engineer or have technical training to know that a vehicle:

• is not equipped with a muffler;
• emits an offensive, harsh, or excessive noise;
• has a defective exhaust system with holes or leaks;
• has a muffler in which baffles contained in the muffler have been removed, damaged or destroyed; or
• is equipped with muffler cutout, or bypass.

The Astoria Police Department’s philosophy to not enforce vehicle noise laws, is clearly evident. During the fourteen month period from 1/1/06 through 2/28/07, no vehicle noise violation citations were issued in the entire City.

Anonymous said...

Anyone have a link to ALN website?

Patrick McGee said...

"Anonymous said...
"name witheld by request" says it all"
....that's the pot calling the kettle pretty-much isn't it?

Remember what this converation was about?

RiverBear said...

Try Google.

This discussion thread should help get Astoria's speeding and vehicle noise problems higher on the search engine listings!

RiverBear said...

Still waiting for Councilors Roscoe and Warr thoughts and comments on safety and quality of life issues related to vehicle speeding, crosswalk safety and excessive vehicle noise in residential Astoria.

Anonymous is like the Energizer-Bunny. He can go on and on and on without stating any facts or presenting a supported argument.

Anonymous said...

The leader of ALN, Leon Jackson, delivered the same tirade years ago as River Bear is doing here. While ALN had some good points, their leader spent all his time bashing those who volunteer their time, often at great business and personal loss, to run for office and help Astoria grow. Because of the constant viciousness and the problem that the ALN leader did not like any of the solutions proposed, it came to the point that everyone paid no attention to ALN because of the its leader and the organization diminished to only a name. It seems that River Bear is doing the same thing here.

Patrick McGee said...

ALN Website

Anonymous said...

"..that's the pot calling the kettle pretty-much isn't it?

Remember what this converation was about

What? I didnt write a public letter to the mayor/council/COP etc, requesting anything! There's a difference in being anonymous on a cyber rag than it is concerning missives to public officials/government. One can only assume that Riverbears so called letter is actually a fake because the city wouldnt acknowledge anonymous correspondence and since there's no one willing to be accountable for said letter it's point, whatever it is, is moot.

Patrick McGee said...

Now the pot is in "denial"

RiverBear said...

Anonymous: Did you delete all your recent posts about Drew Hertzig, Josh Marquis, Tom Bergin and KC McGee? Or did they self-destruct?

I hope you are enjoying this as much as I am ..... more fun than whack-a mole!

BTW ... Grassroots People is an excellent blog. I appreciate its quality, and that you don't have to be born in Clatsop County or Oregon to post comments.

RiverBear said...

Still waiting for Councilors Roscoe and Warr thoughts and comments on safety and quality of life issues related to vehicle speeding, crosswalk safety and excessive vehicle noise in Astoria.

In the meantime ……

Anonymous must have led a protected and sheltered life if she/he thinks it is “vicious” to post facts and public comment on a problem. Perhaps, she/he needs to leave the protected nest of good ol’boy Astoria.

If it is “vicious” to bash incompetent public officials, so be it … BASH!

For the record, ALN did make suggestions, and they were ignored or rejected. The City Council even ignored recommendations by the APD. What a totally dysfunctional situation … sad and absurd!

Anonymous … please provide a list of the solutions proposed by the City. By the way, if there were solutions proposed by the City, that implies acknowledgement that problems exist.

Even stranger is that in addition to acknowledging the existence of problems, Anonymous is implying that the City needed ALN acquiescence for the City to implement its solutions to the problems. Sadly, out of spite, the City did nothing. So totally Ionesco!

Anonymous said...

the only person who can delete here is the administrator and you like this so called blog (its actually a 'cyber rag'...because locals posts are removed and the tourists stuff stays.

Patrick McGee said...

You are not local "Anonym" but, you are venomous, vitriolic and very disrespectful. You want to continue, knock it off with the whining and hostility whwn you can't carry the conversation with anything valid to it.

Anonymous said...

I'm not? News to me!

Anonymous said...

The question that is on everyone's mind is why doesn't RiverBear/Leon Jackson run for city council? According to him he has oodles of support-he can run on the safe streets ticket

Patrick McGee said...

Maybe R.B./L.J. will run as a write-in candidate in his district.

Loosh said...

I would like to see a GRP poll that explores the viability of River Bear aka Leon Jackson running for a muncipal office. The results might be a favorable surprise.

Anonymous said...

Maybe someone should ask River Bear/ Leon Jackson if he would accept public office. He has had many chances to run and, so far, has decided to bash government rather than participate in it.

Riverbear said...

Sure, why not? My hat is in the ring! Write In: RIVER BEAR

Anonymous said...

So, that is what RB/LJ thinks of the political process. He is truly a person seriously interested in public service, right?

Anonymous said...

After reading RiverBear's comments and the ALN webpage, I am glad APD chief Deu Pree and captain Oja retired. Seems like Curzon is not any better. The city council and major should be ashamed by their lack of concern.

Anonymous said...

Me too. Where do I send a financial contribution?

RiverBear said...

Anonymous has made numerous postings since asked to support the allegation: " ... the ALN leader did not like any of the solutions proposed (by the City)".

Anonymous: Please provide a list of the solutions proposed by the City.

Anonymous said...

Write tickets to everyone driving more than 26 mph on 16th street. Didn't your family experience this idea, or was it a neighbor?

RiverBear said...

ALN has been in hibernation (like its friend RiverBear). Submissions & articles to our website are always welcomed. We would love to post articles about problems and/or solutions related to safety and quality of life issue in Astoria.

Please send to ALN:

Snail Mail: P.O. Box 1234, Astoria, OR 97103


RiverBear said...

After repeatedly asking Anonymous for the City's proposed solutions to the vehicle speeding and excessive vehicle noise problems in Astoria, I will assume Anonymous misstated the truth when he referred to such proposals.

Anonymous' disdain for those you "expect too much" pretty much sums up the good ol' boy mentality in Astoria. What a horrible idea to raise the bar on public official performance!

Back to the issues ….

Vehicle Speeding, Crosswalk Safety and Excessive Vehicle Noise:

Still waiting for Councilors Roscoe and Warr thoughts and comments on public safety and quality of life issues related to vehicle speeding, crosswalk safety and excessive vehicle noise in Astoria.

Deteriorating and Unsafe Sidewalks:

Councilor Roscoe replied to Patrick’s post on FaceBook and pretty much disavowed the problem with deteriorating and unsafe sidewalks . Still waiting to hear from Councilor Warr.

RiverBear said...

Anonymous completely misses ALN’s point regarding vehicle noise. ALN has always acknowledged that motor vehicles make noise. ALN’s complaint is about EXCESSIVE noise from UNLAWFUL exhaust and sound systems.

After fruitless conservations with APD Chief Deu Pree, City Manager Benoit and APD Assistant Chief Oja, ALN performed an audit on citations issued by APD during a 14-month period. During that 14-month period, APD issued no citations for excessive vehicle noise.

The following is a recap of what ALN discovered about the APD and its failure to enforce Oregon’s vehicle exhaust noise laws.

Why Doesn’t APD Enforce Vehicle Noise Law?
By its own admission, the APD does not enforce Oregon’s or Astoria’s vehicle noise laws. In 2006 when ALN inquired about enforcement practices, the APD didn’t even own a sound (decibel) meter necessary for enforcing ORS 815.250 (2)(c).

As a result of complaints from the ALN, the APD made an effort to enforce ORS 815.250 during a two-week period in October 2006. Because the APD did not own a sound meter, it borrowed one. During that period, the APD noted only one vehicle exceeding the noise level allowed by statute, and the driver of the noisy vehicle was not cited.

APD’s effort to enforce ORS 815.250 was doomed from the start because APD FAILED TO FOLLOW THE PROCEDURES required by ORS 815.250. The results reported by the APD were meaningless.

Statutory Method For Measuring Vehicle Noise:
ORS 815.250(2)(c) requires that an exhaust system must meet noise emission standards measured in decibels based upon a stationary test conducted at a distance of 25 feet in accordance with procedures established by the Oregon Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ).

DEQ procedures for stationary motor vehicle sound level measurement specify that:
• vehicle being tested is stationary.
• noise level is measured with a decibel meter.
• decibel meter’s microphone is located 25 feet, plus or minus 6 inches, from the rear or either side of the vehicle to be tested. The locus of points along this 25-foot distance is the microphone line.
• decibel meter’s microphone is located at the point along the microphone line at which the maximum sound level occurs.
• vehicle being tested is in a neutral gear.
• engine is at normal operating temperature.
• throttle is fully open.
• highest sound level observed, exclusive of peaks due to unrelated ambient noise, is recorded.
• decibel level measured is compared to maximum decibel level standards allowed under ORS 815.250(2)(c).

APD’s Method For Measuring Vehicle Noise:
• officer sits in a parked patrol vehicle (WRONG);
• noise level is measure using a decibel meter as a vehicle passes by the stationary police vehicle (WRONG).

Why The APD Method Is Wrong:
The maximum noise levels of ORS 815.250(2)(c) were established based on specific measurement procedures established by the DEQ. To apply such standards to decibel noise level measurements derived via other test means is wrong. APD DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE LAW AND THE REQUIRED PROCEDURE FOR MEASURING:

• APD is confused that the vehicle being tested is stationary -- not the police vehicle.
• APD does not measure exhaust noise when tested vehicle is at full throttle.
• APD does not measure sound at the required distance.

Why Does the APD Use an Incorrect Method:
It is unclear whether the APD employs an incorrect method because of improper training or for other reasons. The bottom line is that the APD does not, and cannot, properly enforce ORS 815.250(2)(c).

Any conclusions or statements made by Chief Deu Pree regarding enforcement of this statute are misleading and incorrect. IT SHOULD BE NOTED THAT AT AN OCTOBER 17, 2006 MEETING WITH THE ALN, CHIEF DEU PREE WAS ADVISED BY THE ALN THAT THE APD NOISE MEASURING PROCEDURE WAS WRONG. CHIEF DEU PREE IGNORED THE ADVICE.

Anonymous said...

We dont need no stinkin' DEQ measuring car sounds around here. The arterial streets transversing the hill, like 8th, 16th, Niagara and 7th, have always been noiser than the surrounding neighberhoods because there's lots of traffic. People have always gotten along with it because if they couldn't they'd move to quieter areas.

RiverBear said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
RiverBear said...

Peter Roscoe failed to attend the Clatsop County Democrats meeting held September 24th. His excuse was that he was on the road. I wonder if his failing to show had anything to do with his wanting to avoid Astoria residents who are irate about the DUII Municipal Court fiasco and the park and recreation department’s “sweetheart deal” with J.P.Moss and its related/resulting problems.

Roscoe’s written campaign statement failed to address either of these issues. In fact Roscoe listed saving the Aquatic Center and revamping the entire Parks Department as one of the "team" accomplishments of the City Council.

I doubt that everyone shares Roscoe’s enthusiasm on the sweet deal awarded to Mr. Moss.

Patrick McGee said...

Moss has the same or, at least, similar gig with the City of Woddburn doesn't he?

RiverBear said...

Per DA 12/9/11: Moss earns $150,000 for part-time work at the City of Woodburn.

RiverBear said...

Of course busy streets are noisy! What does that have to do with the APD, City Council and City Manager ignoring Oregon law because they are too lazy or want to pander to Astoria's good-ol'-boy, loud-vehicle-loving crowd?

Officials such as Peter Roscoe and Russ Warr along with the rest of the City Council, Willis Van Dusen, Paul Benoit, Robert Deu Pree (retired), Alan Oja (retired), and Blair Henningsgaard, who pick and choose what laws they want to enforce have/had no business being in city government.

Deu Pree and Oja should be embarrassed by their incompetence in regard to motor vehicle noise law enforcement.

Astoria City Council needs new, intelligent and open-minded members.

RiverBear said...

I am in the process of requesting the last few years of budgets and financial statements for the Parks & Rec Dept, plus contracts for Moss and Swim Essentials, Inc and related entities.

RiverBear said...

Peter Roscoe, Russ Warr and Trouble at Annie’s Tavern:

Astoria Police tell Annie’s Tavern: Shape up – or else

Friday, September 28, 2012 10:45 am | Updated: 12:02 pm, Fri Sep 28, 2012.
The Daily Astorian |

A verbal warning has been issued by police to the owners of Annie’s Tavern.

One more late-night brawl or excessive after-hours noise complaint and the Astoria tavern – which features exotic dancers and most recently became the site of a 20-person fight between fishermen and loggers during Labor Day weekend – could lose its liquor license.

Astoria Police reported more than 50 police contacts related to the bar since the new ownership in May. Those complaints include neighborhood disturbances, such as noise, urinating in public, vomiting in the streets, fighting and other disorderly activities. OLCC also had more than 10 complaints documented.
Additionally, the APD received more complaints last week during the Astoria City Council meeting, when two residents from the Mill Pond’s Gateway building appeared.

“We’re all people who want to be in bed by 11 o’clock. Midnight really is kind of pushing it,” Bonnie Lane said. “And 1 o’clock in the morning – I’m mad. Get those people out of here!”

Lora Meadows, another Mill Pond area resident, asked why the City Council had approved the liquor license in the first place.

Mayor Willis Van Dusen explained, however, that the decision was made by the OLCC. The city was only asked to recommend approval of the license, which leaders did with a 3-2 vote. PETER ROSCOE, RUSS WARR AND VAN DUSEN VOTED IN FAVOR OF IT; Arline LaMear and Karen Mellin voted against giving a recommendation.

Anonymous said...

So what?

Anonymous said...

I'm surprised that Leon Jackson is upset about Annies. Did he do his "research" there? Or, perhaps, he solicited patrons for his Astorians for Livable Neighborhoods there? Ummmm. My impression of Leon from his posts here is that he is a dried up prune. Just how much credibility should be give this guy?

RiverBear said...

For those unhappy the groupthink mentality of the City Council and/or with Russ Warr, please write-in KC McGee for Councilor in Ward 4.

RiverBear said...

For years, Astoria residents have complained to City Hall and the Police Department about unsafe streets and crosswalks and the deteriorating quality of life caused by high vehicle speeds in Astoria, especially in residential areas, and the lack of enforcement of vehicle noise laws (exhaust and sound systems).

Past and present City Councils, Mayor Van Dusen, City Manager Benoit and Police Chiefs Deu Pree and Curzon didn’t take these complaints seriously, and failed to take effective action.

The lawless attitude of Astoria drivers towards pedestrians in crosswalks is not new, and is obvious to anyone who walks in this town. It is commonplace for drivers to knowingly, or intentionally, not stop for a pedestrian in a crosswalk. Such bad behavior has resulted from years and years of lax enforcement of traffic and vehicle laws by the APD.

At a higher government level, the laissez-faire attitude of the Mayor, City Councilors, City Manager and City Attorney has condoned, if not created, this “Mad Max” mentality of many drivers in Astoria.

This crosswalk safety problem should never have happened. Now, it is the job of City Hall and APD to fix it. Chief Curzon’s comment that “the simple fix is for local drivers to respect the traffic laws”, is the typical, pie-in-the-sky blather that has come from City Hall and APD in the past.

The first step in fixing these problems is to vote out incumbent City Councilors Russ Warr and Peter Roscoe in the November elections.

RiverBear said...

The City has blown $24,000 in legal fees fighting the move of DUII cases to Circuit Court, and now has lost $12,000 on a concert to fund Parks scholarships and the Astoria High School band.

Who is running the city? Does an interim contractor worker such as Swim Essentials Inc (aka JP Moss) have the authority to approve a concert and the related expenditures? Who approved the $18,000 in concert expenses.

This $36,000 could have been used to support the police and fire departments, or another needy city department.

Seems weird - What is the logic in firing three park & rec employees and hiring two back at higher salaries?

When will Astorians wise-up and recall the Councilors and Mayor, and fire Benoit?

Drew Herzig presents himself as an intelligent, thoughtful clear-thinker. What a wonderful addition he will be to the City Council.

Vote for Herzig and write-in KC McGee.

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't vote Herzig for dog catcher if he was the only candidate. His agenda and the north coast agenda are 180 degrees in the opposite direction.

Patrick McGee said...

Just exactly what is "The North Coast Agenda"?

RiverBear said...

Great question from Patrick! I can't wait for Anonymous' response.

I take it that Anonymous is cool with the $36,000 recently wasted by the City and the JP Moss (aka Swimwear Essentials, Inc) sweetheart deal. Let's call it Moss-gate.

Anonymous must also be cool with the Duii Muni-gate fiasco.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like this has become the Leon Jackson forum used to blast anyone who does not agree with Leon, which is most everone. But, the question remains, is Leon a mental or just someone who failed in his own website adventures and wants to take over Paricks?
In any case, Yawnnnnnnnn.

RiverBear said...

Anonymous ... Would be interesting to meet you. How about coffee at Astoria Coffee House or Blue Scorcher?

Anonymous said...

Ooo. Now. Patrick is a dateing service.

Patrick McGee said...

Wouldn't it be ironic if you took River Bear up on his offer and you turned out to be Ann Samuelson?

Anonymous said...

just the fact that RB wants to meet at the AHC or the Blue Scorcher(yuk) speaks if he'd said the Labor Temple or Pig & Pancake there might have been some hope, but really, that Astoria Coffee House???? Oh Jesus.

RiverBear said...

I eat at P&P all the time. Never been to Labor Temple cafe ... no reason ,,, just didn't look inviting.

Anonymous is missing some great food and bread by not going to Blue Scorcher.

I doubt Samuelson hates me as much as Anonymous does .. never communicated with her, and probably never said much about her.

Anonymous & Patrick .... how about coffee at P&P?

I promise not to wear my University of California - Berkley tee shirt!

Anonymous said...

Roscoe destroyed Herzog today on the Freel show . . .

RiverBear said...

Anonymous: Wrong day, wrong name and wrong conclusion.

Patrick McGee said...

"Anonym" said...
"Roscoe destroyed Herzog today on the Freel show . . ."

12:21 PM

What aspect of the KAST-AM interview in particular, did Roscoe dominate over Herzig Anonym?

Anonymous said...

Herzog revealed himself to be a big spending moonbat!!...He's has no place in Astoria's civil government- Where the hell does he think he is, San Francisco?? Nobody wants some outsider coming here and telling us what he thinks we should do with our city money. Roscoe put him in his place and anyone who listened to it will agree.

Patrick McGee said...

I listened to the entire interview.

RiverBear said...

Welcome to Astoria!

Anonymous continues with his tirade against "outsiders" and "Californians". Despite close-minded locals like Anonymous, "outsiders" continue to move to Astoria because they enjoy its beauty, the river, the hills, great places to eat like Blue Scorcher etc.

It is the choice of us "outsiders" to live here ... unlike Anonymous who is a retrogressive who probably cannot survive anywhere else.

Anonymous said...

Patrick McGee said...
What aspect of the KAST-AM interview in particular, did Roscoe dominate over Herzig Anonym?

All of it. there wasn't one issue discussed that Roscoe didn't blow Herzog out of the water--Herzog is a poser. Peter Roscoe is the real thing.

Anonymous said...

a, the :blue scorcher: is a crap hole

b. Riverbore/leon sucked so much air out of the DAs Walmart thread that the editor shut it down. Way to go, Leon, you clown shoed knucklemonkey